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Post by West on Aug 26, 2009 19:28:58 GMT -5
How is that? This story takes place before Blackest Night. I didn't catch that..
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Post by yranigami7 on Aug 26, 2009 19:35:57 GMT -5
At the end of Barry's run as the Flash (the final 2 or 3 issues I think, I gotta dig them up again later) it was revealed that Thawne was not dead after all.. according to Iris, who was also not dead. Check it out if you can. So I was very surpised to know he was in the speed force this whole time! Anyway, other than that, the issue was great and I agree that Jai should get a "superpower makeover" because the whole child-hulk thing has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with the speed force! Little Iris's phasing could at least be counted as molecule vibration, but Jai's explosive musculature? c'mon!
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Post by yranigami7 on Aug 26, 2009 19:39:48 GMT -5
By the way: who knew Eobard Thawne and Quicksilver were one and the same? Bad hair day, huh Pietro? ;-D
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Post by FlashGL78 on Aug 26, 2009 20:06:38 GMT -5
Great Issue. I knew the art was going to be fantastic once I saw the Variant cover. Professor Zoom was everywhere but Barry and Wally had their moments.
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Gen200
Speedster in Training
Posts: 86
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Post by Gen200 on Aug 26, 2009 20:19:57 GMT -5
How is that? This story takes place before Blackest Night. I didn't catch that.. Time travel, you silly goose! How else?
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kelson
Grodd's Mind Slave
Speed Force Historian
Posts: 106
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Post by kelson on Aug 27, 2009 2:24:22 GMT -5
Professor said something that heavily impied that he's going to come back during Blackest Night. Page 2, panel two in Flash Rebirth #4. Yeah, I got the same impression.
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kelson
Grodd's Mind Slave
Speed Force Historian
Posts: 106
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Post by kelson on Aug 27, 2009 2:24:53 GMT -5
I've re-read the issue, and for the most part I really liked it. It's the first issue that left me excited for more since, well, the first issue. Full review hereThat said I really don't like the idea that the speed force was *created* by Barry. I'm okay with the temporal paradox, but I have two problems with it: 1. It feels like a cheap trick to make Barry the ultimate Flash, not just now, but retroactively. Of course he's going to be the ultimate Flash now, otherwise why would we be shifting focus to his adventures? But it's basically the equivalent of explaining that Hal Jordan was actually the inspiration for the Green Lantern Corps, and the central power battery draws its power from him 2. It violates one of the key reasons the speed force was invented: to explain where speedsters get their energy. Okay, so Wally, Jay and Bart get their energy from the speed force, and it gets its energy from Barry...so where does Barry get his energy from? OTOH, I did like the explanation that it connects to all times, dimensions and universes, neatly explaining how speedsters are able to travel through time and across the multiverse.
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papazero
Cosmic Treadmill Duster
Posts: 152
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Post by papazero on Aug 27, 2009 4:08:00 GMT -5
That said I really don't like the idea that the speed force was *created* by Barry. I'm okay with the temporal paradox, but I have two problems with it: 1. It feels like a cheap trick to make Barry the ultimate Flash, not just now, but retroactively. I wouldn't call it a trick so much as DC's intentional means of saying Barry is the banner Flash now. ...and you have every right to be offended at the way they did it. His accident having created the Speed Force (explained as such) making him the "beginning and end" just creates another stupid loop of problems. Since Wally was the next to experience the accident - why didn't he create the "negative Speed Force?" How many Speed Forces can there be? Why doesn't Thawne need a lightning rod girlfriend to escape the Speed Force? Like I said before, unless you base the powers on science and leave some room to fill in details - just give them all magic boots. They didn't need this as a qualification for the Speed Force since real science has explained this since the 30's or so. It would make more sense to use quantum mechanics if they're going to take the time to explain it at all - or at least define the Speed Force in those terms... 1961's The Flash of two worlds wasn't a fluke. As much scoffing as there is about silver age Flash science, Fox, Schwartz, and Infantino authentically knew what they were talking about... "The Everett many-worlds interpretation, formulated in 1956, holds that all the possibilities described by quantum theory simultaneously occur in a "multiverse" composed of mostly independent parallel universes." Flash Facts weren't arbitrary psuedo-science story devices (though there were plenty of those too) they were encyclopedic tid-bits of factual knowledge dropped into the comic which reflected the scientific, forward thinking character of the era and subsequently in the personality of the hero himself.
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dillonmania
Cosmic Treadmill Duster
Don't you wish you were crazy like me?
Posts: 174
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Post by dillonmania on Aug 27, 2009 4:34:58 GMT -5
Maybe Thawne created the Negative Speed Force because he's evil, so when the accident zapped him his evil nature made some kind of anti-Barry Speed Force..? It's at least partly based on his nasty personality and negative nature..?
Yeah, I'm grasping at straws here. But it would explain why Wally didn't create the NSF. If Wally had been evil, he might have been the one to create it.
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papazero
Cosmic Treadmill Duster
Posts: 152
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Post by papazero on Aug 27, 2009 5:07:39 GMT -5
Maybe Thawne created the Negative Speed Force because he's evil, so when the accident zapped him his evil nature made some kind of anti-Barry Speed Force..? It's at least partly based on his nasty personality and negative nature..? Yeah, I'm grasping at straws here. But it would explain why Wally didn't create the NSF. If Wally had been evil, he might have been the one to create it. I suppose if forces of nature take into consideration humankind's subjective definitions of good and evil. I don't know that Thawne believes he is evil. Perhaps he knows he is commiting acts of evil - but he has always shown resent and bitterness... rationalized his acts to serve his purpose whether it be pretending to be Barry to woo Iris or kill Wally's kids out of vendetta. It still leaves the Speed Force a hokier idea than it was.
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Post by Prime on Aug 27, 2009 13:58:37 GMT -5
Good review Kelson though I liked the explanation on the Speed Force a bit more than you did. I liked how the equation that Johnny and Jesse have always said equals all of the speedsters who are in turn, the Speed Force itself.
And to answer your question on if Thawne remembers "The Return of Barry Allen", he doesn't remember it exactly but he said in "Rogue War:, which in the present for Thawne was shortly before his "death", he told Wally that he had a strange feeling, a memory, in the back of his head that made him hate Wally as well. This could probably be referring to the events in TROBA.
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dillonmania
Cosmic Treadmill Duster
Don't you wish you were crazy like me?
Posts: 174
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Post by dillonmania on Aug 27, 2009 16:38:39 GMT -5
I suppose if forces of nature take into consideration humankind's subjective definitions of good and evil. In comics? Hell yes (sadly) I don't know that Thawne believes he is evil. Perhaps he knows he is commiting acts of evil - but he has always shown resent and bitterness... rationalized his acts to serve his purpose whether it be pretending to be Barry to woo Iris or kill Wally's kids out of vendetta. He wouldn't have to believe himself evil. Under this (admittedly shaky) theory, his own inherent darkness/badness/whatever would simply be corrupting the Speed Force and creating an opposite number. It's essentially playing on the idea of an evil twin, which already existed in the very concept of a 'Reverse Flash'. But yes, it would be hokier, I agree. I didn't say I like the idea, just that it seems plausible
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Post by Prime on Aug 27, 2009 18:17:20 GMT -5
I'm still a bit confused as to why the original Black Flash is dead? Did Thawne kill him? Was he killed due to the Speed Force being corrupted? It wasn't made quite clear.
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Post by FlashGL78 on Aug 27, 2009 18:53:15 GMT -5
I admit than I've only been collecting comics for a year now. So this was my first real experience with Professor Zoom, even though I have the Rogue War trade. He kicks @$$. He was everywhere in this issue. I hope he doesn't go down easy in #5. You can tell at the beginning of #4 where he ranks in Barry's mind on his enemy list 1.
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Post by Prime on Aug 27, 2009 19:28:10 GMT -5
I admit than I've only been collecting comics for a year now. So this was my first real experience with Professor Zoom, even though I have the Rogue War trade. He kicks @$$. He was everywhere in this issue. I hope he doesn't go down easy in #5. You can tell at the beginning of #4 where he ranks in Barry's mind on his enemy list 1. He'll last through to #6 no doubt but if he's going to have to try extremely hard to just stay alive against the Flashes(AND MAX!)
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