|
Post by West on Apr 29, 2009 8:49:42 GMT -5
|
|
savitar
Speedster in Training
Lightning can strike twice
Posts: 59
|
Post by savitar on Apr 29, 2009 15:09:02 GMT -5
I'm usually don't care about getting the variant covers of issues. That one looks great though but the Retail cover is such a good twist on the famous Showcase cover that I'd be just as happy with that one.
|
|
|
Post by momoney433 on Apr 29, 2009 15:10:22 GMT -5
The variant cover is my favorite so far!!!! Thats awesome... I so wish it was a 50/50 split!
|
|
kelson
Grodd's Mind Slave
Speed Force Historian
Posts: 106
|
Post by kelson on Apr 29, 2009 16:55:30 GMT -5
I like that even out of costume, Barry looks dynamic. That said, I don't feel a pressing need to hunt for the variant this time around. Like Savitar said, the standard cover is a great twist on a classic.
|
|
dillonmania
Cosmic Treadmill Duster
Don't you wish you were crazy like me?
Posts: 174
|
Post by dillonmania on Apr 29, 2009 17:04:15 GMT -5
I won't try to get the variant cover, but I like it better. Too many zombies on the other one
|
|
|
Post by Prime on Apr 29, 2009 17:47:35 GMT -5
Love teh variant but I'll probably stick with the regular one.
|
|
papazero
Cosmic Treadmill Duster
Posts: 152
|
Post by papazero on Apr 29, 2009 19:24:58 GMT -5
Having read the preview I can say that at least one of the major mischaracterizations from issue one of Barry Allen has been at least temporarily dispelled. skip this if you don't want to read the preview... . . . . . . . . . . . . . . In issue #1 Barry runs off from his conversation with Hal exclaiming "tell everyone I'm sorry, but I'm not going to make it to the parties and parades," in effect - he can't be with friends and family - he must go where ever "the rest of the world" needs him... I thought this was directly in contrast with Barry's ever present dedication to his friends and family. Of course he runs off to save the day as necessary but Barry always engaged himself with Iris, Wally, his parents, his co-workers, and fellow heroes in a direct and personable manner. He even took the responsibility of fostering a co-worker's kid for a while... Barring an immediate threat - he absolutely would have gone to see the family and friends welcoming him home out of duty to them. Grant Morrison didn't miss this point in Final Crisis and it was one of the more touching themes in an otherwise dense storyline... This sense of family is perhaps the one continuous theme that unites the entire run of the mantle of the Flash since the debut of the silver age character. While his birth in 1956 wasn't intended to carry any legacy from Jay Garrick, the strength of these ties manifested through the addition of his superhero sidekick, his girlfriend/wife, and shared adventures with Ralph Dibney and Green Lantern among others. It definitely made fuel for good story telling carrying all the way through Wally's taking on the shadow of legacy and Bart's tutelage under Max Mercury. With the exception of Jay before the silver age - this element has always been somehow a part of every Flash character engine. Even the Flash villains are a family of sorts. In the preview the line about "no time for parties and parades" appears to be dispelled by Barry stating he was on the way to Wally's dinner party... in the short run, I don't understand the apparent conflicted script - but it does seem more in character. I know it's a rebirth - but unless a time travel supplanted event changed intrinsic character traits to Barry (even if the familial character engine remains) I suspect we're watching a new character "Garry" Allen."
|
|
papazero
Cosmic Treadmill Duster
Posts: 152
|
Post by papazero on Apr 29, 2009 19:53:07 GMT -5
Actually he only says he was supposed to attend - not that he intended on going before Savitar appeared. doh. Maybe with the darker version it's Scary Allen?
|
|
|
Post by West on Apr 30, 2009 14:44:03 GMT -5
I think its more of his way of dealing with all the "fame" and "worship" he's getting from his return.
|
|
papazero
Cosmic Treadmill Duster
Posts: 152
|
Post by papazero on Apr 30, 2009 15:52:57 GMT -5
I would have to respectfully disagree. The purpose of the scene is to establish Barry's need to get back to the business of being a hero. Aside from the fact that he retired to start a family in the future before his death in Crisis it would be pointless to reintroduce him to a new audience without giving him a compelling drive to take up the mantle. It's been mentioned here and there that Barry never got the reboot in the post crisis era (which ironically enough GL Rebirth had to undo). I believe they're inserting some artificial "hard ass" into Barry's character ala Batman to correspond with what they perceive as a "modern" component of the conventional hero. In regard to the fame/worship thing - Barry never had a problem with fame or hero worship. It was a matter that the silver and bronze age did address both implicitly and explicitly. In contrast to characters like Spiderman who was conflicted and at odds with the public and his own identity, Barry handled his role and popularity exceptionally well amongst fans, law enforcement, super powered peers, and the whole of Central City - which took great pride in being the home of the Flash. This was actually one of the reasons the Trial of the Flash was so significant in the Flash continuum in it's day. The guy had his own frickin' museum.
|
|
|
Post by Prime on Apr 30, 2009 18:37:00 GMT -5
In regard to the fame/worship thing - Barry never had a problem with fame or hero worship. It was a matter that the silver and bronze age did address both implicitly and explicitly. In contrast to characters like Spiderman who was conflicted and at odds with the public and his own identity, Barry handled his role and popularity exceptionally well amongst fans, law enforcement, super powered peers, and the whole of Central City - which took great pride in being the home of the Flash. This was actually one of the reasons the Trial of the Flash was so significant in the Flash continuum in it's day. The guy had his own frickin' museum. I want Trial of the Flash collected into an omnibus or something for the exact reasons you say!
|
|
|
Post by West on Apr 30, 2009 20:44:01 GMT -5
I would have to respectfully disagree. The purpose of the scene is to establish Barry's need to get back to the business of being a hero. Aside from the fact that he retired to start a family in the future before his death in Crisis it would be pointless to reintroduce him to a new audience without giving him a compelling drive to take up the mantle. It's been mentioned here and there that Barry never got the reboot in the post crisis era (which ironically enough GL Rebirth had to undo). I believe they're inserting some artificial "hard ass" into Barry's character ala Batman to correspond with what they perceive as a "modern" component of the conventional hero. In regard to the fame/worship thing - Barry never had a problem with fame or hero worship. It was a matter that the silver and bronze age did address both implicitly and explicitly. In contrast to characters like Spiderman who was conflicted and at odds with the public and his own identity, Barry handled his role and popularity exceptionally well amongst fans, law enforcement, super powered peers, and the whole of Central City - which took great pride in being the home of the Flash. This was actually one of the reasons the Trial of the Flash was so significant in the Flash continuum in it's day. The guy had his own frickin' museum. Barry never had to deal with the world's admiration like he's dealing with now. People weren't batshit crazy about him back then. Now he's seen as a saint. Imagine the pressure a hero would have if he returned to life after everyone OVERLY praised him because of his actions. While I'll agree that the death of his mother and arrest of his father feels like an unnecessary retcon to make Barry typical, I'll point you towards the various talks/quotes from Ethan Van Sciver that tells us to wait and see where this goes before we call Geoff a hack and an idiot(not that you have) for changing Barry drastically just to make him "modern" I understand you completely, but I still think that his return is a hell of a burden to live up to, and we might be seeing a bit of that in this series.
|
|
savitar
Speedster in Training
Lightning can strike twice
Posts: 59
|
Post by savitar on May 2, 2009 22:03:23 GMT -5
Even moreso than Superman, family has become an integral part of the Flash legacy, a defining trait that makes this character even more unique. I found it strange that the four major characters (Barry, Iris, Wally, Bart) were shown separate in #1. I'm sure that upon his return, the first person Barry would see would be Iris, the second person being Wally. That is, unless some time has passed between his actual return and #1 and Barry did this off-panel in-between. Bart's presence may signify this. Besides spoiling 3 Worlds to an extent, how long has Bart been back as well? Did he arrive at the same time as Barry? Sooner? Later?
I'm still not sure about changing his personal history to 'modernize' him. Why? What's wrong with someone gaining powers and using them to help others just because it's the right thing to do? No Parker angst to suffer through. I don't know where this belief that readers can't or won't identify with Barry originated. Altering the character through tragedy is supposed to fix this? Krypton blows up, Superman arrives on Earth to help. Bruce's parents are killed, he starts his obsessive journey to fight crime. Barry is struck by lightning, an 'apparent' accident. So now the only way to fix this is to give him a reason why he's in a crime lab to begin with? I'm willing to wait for the whole picture but it depends on how much is changed.
As for fame and worship, Barry can handle it, but what I think has shocked him is what all Wally has accomplished in his stead. I can see where he might think he has to live up Wally's expectations now and why he's off to be a hero so soon. (Of course, this may also tie-in with his notion that his time may be short on this mortal coil. I think he believes he could slip back into the Speed Force at any time and thus he wants to do all he can while he can.)
All these questions and it's only been one issue so far! ;D
|
|
papazero
Cosmic Treadmill Duster
Posts: 152
|
Post by papazero on May 3, 2009 20:26:44 GMT -5
Barry never had to deal with the world's admiration like he's dealing with now. People weren't batshit crazy about him back then. Now he's seen as a saint. Imagine the pressure a hero would have if he returned to life after everyone OVERLY praised him because of his actions. While I'll agree that the death of his mother and arrest of his father feels like an unnecessary retcon to make Barry typical, I'll point you towards the various talks/quotes from Ethan Van Sciver that tells us to wait and see where this goes before we call Geoff a hack and an idiot(not that you have) for changing Barry drastically just to make him "modern" I understand you completely, but I still think that his return is a hell of a burden to live up to, and we might be seeing a bit of that in this series. Central City celebrated Flash Day... denizens within the DC continuum regarded Flash as an A-list heavy hitter and there was no shortage of circumstances in which Flash single handedly or aided in saving earth in "public view." (This is is largely why Barry Allen's heroic death, alone and unkown, was so effective and profound) People were very much "batshit crazy" over him. The distinction you point to - the whole "Saint Barry" thing was more of a psychosis that came about as a means to fuel Wally's character engine and it was a brilliant one. It was constructed to retro-actively explain why Wally wasn't as powerful as Barry and how he would come to step out of his mentor's shadow. It had no significance to any character outside the Flash circle. Moreover, my original point was that the scene was to establish his compelled nature to run off and save the day which I believe just so happened to conflict with his sense of duty to his friends and family. I never made any mention of his parent's subplot in issue #1 and don't really care one way or the other about it as time travellers (and comic books in general for that matter) have a way of keeping you on your toes with continuity. It may likely be the new element used to rationalize the change made to Barry's priotities and personality. I have never and would never referred to Johns or EVS as hacks. I've never read anything Johns has done outside the Flash material and even if I had I would never go as far as to make personal attacks against guys that write comic books because I don't like their work. I read them for enjoyment and I come here for the same.
|
|
|
Post by West on May 14, 2009 8:24:21 GMT -5
Does anyone remember if we were promised a Hunter Zolomon appearance/role/cameo? Because the way this story is playing out(albeit its only two issues in) it doesn't look like the now depowered villain has much room to make an impact in this story.
Also, I was listening to 11 O'clock Comics podcast, and they were pretty much set in their minds that the story would end with Barry not being just the status quo hero. Something BIG was going to be relevant with him and change the outlook/direction of the main title once it starts. Anyone else share their opinion?
|
|